THERION - interview with Christofer Johnsson, November 2007

Asking Christofer what had changed for him and Therion in the last 20 years, besides some band members, of course, he offered this insight: "Well, Therion is always changing. It's evolving and every show is a different experience. It's like a flower. You can see a picture and know what it looks like but you can't smell it. So each Therion tour is different, with different members, circumstances, whatever."

Inevitably it must be pondered, would he go back and change anything or do anything differently if he had the chance? "Well, no. We had to go through all of what we did to get where we are, to become what we are today. Our first three records were--kind of a trilogy--ahead of their time in some ways. There were keyboards, not prominently, but they were there." He added that Moonsorrow, Nightwish, and Tiamat were akin to Therion, if only in that they were also different from so much of what was out there in the European Metal scene at the time, particularly the early 90s. It's also worth noting that those bands, not unlike Therion, changed into something vastly different from what their humble origins might have supposed.

Christofer went on to say that Europe seemed to be a few years ahead of the U.S. in terms of musical trends, noting that Nightwish, who have been popular in Europe for several years now, are only recently catching on in America. He used them as a perhaps parallel to address Therion's own late-growing popularity in the U.S. "Nightwish sells 1.9 million in Europe but only 200,000 in the U.S., and we're much less popular, so if we sell 500,000 in Europe, we would sell much less in U.S." Clearly he lamented the inability to properly tour areas outside of Europe, as would be reiterated later on in our conversation.

An interesting turn in the discussion saw a somewhat animated Christofer discuss HammerFall "saving Metal," not only in the U.S., but also throughout Europe. "Grunge was tired, no one was putting out good Metal records and then HammerFall came along; they had the right spirit and ability. Nothing original, no, but [a bunch of big name bands – Helloween, Iron Maiden, etc.] were putting out nothing special" and "HammerFall came along and really saved Metal." I bet no one out there thought so highly of HammerFall, right? Who knew!? Apparently Christofer Johnsson, that’s who.

Moving on, I queried how this tour was compared to the 2005 campaign, besides the brevity factor, of course. "Well, there are fewer dates. We thought to do some dates based on the last tour, where we were more successful and had good shows. Balancing economics in terms of touring is necessary, so we didn't want to play more dates where we'd have fewer fans. We tried to play areas where we were more successful and hope that fans would go there. So we did 3 shows in California, then Japan, then we had to find some shows to come east, but we didn't want to play any redneck shows – y'know, [with an] upside down bathtub for a stage, etc. But we managed to come across the country, playing a few dates in between."

And how was Japan? "It was really great. Really surprising, actually. We got in touch with a promoter who wanted to fly us over for one festival date [Loud Park '07], and they gave us $40K to do it, so of course we did it, and it was great. The main draw, of course, was Heaven & Hell, but we did well. We went on earlier in the day, which in normal touring no one is there as people are just coming in, but in Japan, everyone was there when the doors opened. They had a good set-up, too. There were two stages and when one act was done, all the people moved to the other stage in 15 minutes and it was very orderly. Very well done. But we were told that there was a lot of talk about Therion, so it seems we have our ticket back [for future opportunities in the land of the rising sun]."

So I had to ask if this indeed would be Therion's final U.S. appearance? "Well, you never want to say never, but it's very unlikely based on money. It just isn't feasible for us to put on the full show that we want to. After 20 years we're essentially a show band and there's not really anymore of that. Like, in the 70s you had KISS and Alice Cooper, but there's nothing like that now. Obviously our musical evolution came first and we've been gradually adding to the theatrical aspect, but that's something that's been missing for some time. I mean, Lordi -- that's music for 12 year olds. And GWAR>, they're a gimmick without any musical talent. If they didn't have the masks, they wouldn't be of interest, but there's no music there. So there haven't really been any real show bands...."

I interrupted: "But what about King Diamond? He still brings a lot of theatrics to his shows...." "Yes, that’s true, and I have a great respect for the man, but he hasn't put out a really good album in some time. ... But maybe that's not being fair. I haven't really listened to King Diamond in a very long while. Maybe he has [put out something good that I've just not listened to]."

So then I asked about Therion being a direct support act for King Diamond, or perhaps Dream Theater, because I think fans would make a lot of sense out of both of those tours. Clearly Therion and Dream Theater are very different but the musical element and sheer talent on display would be very high. Either tour would easily bring Therion a larger fan base, which in turn would lead to more record sales, etc., etc., and Dream Theater fans in particular aren't kids....

"Well... that could work, but as a support act we'd make absolutely no money. Support bands get nothing, it's not like the headliner will pay for everything for their support acts, so that wouldn't work. We couldn't continue to play shows where we have to pay $500 a day or more. For us it may be too late in the U.S. [in terms of building a larger fanbase]. We simply couldn't afford to constantly lose money on touring to gain more fans. For example, we talked about doing a tour that would make sense, where we would make reasonable money, but we'd have to do 3 tours of one, one and a half months at a time, within one year in North America to have it make sense and that's something we can’t do."

Unless everybody's pipe dream Pink Floyd tour was offered to them, Therion seem satisfied to only tour Europe for the foreseeable future, with Christofer adding "it only makes sense at this point."

Moving on again, I asked about their current support acts. "You mean Aesma Daeva?" Christofer then mentioned how that band had played some dates in support of Therion's 2005 tour and they were contacted at such point that Mr. Johnsson needed a soprano for the '07 and other tours. At that time he was told the singer of interest was unfortunately no longer in the band, but that they in fact had a better singer. Enter Lori Lewis.

She ended the pseudo-American Idol farce of Therion trying to find a singer. Whereas Christofer posted some explicit requirements for a singer, including classical training, ability to tour the world, and experience fronting a hard rock type band, he received entries from all manner of unskilled singers. About the worst of these singers Christofer said surely his "neighbors' cats killed themselves" upon hearing said audition tapes.

As to new music, besides Amorphis from well over a decade ago, Christofer had this to say. "Well, I find old bands, gems that I missed out on the first time. I'll be somewhere and someone will say, 'Oh, you like this? Well you should definitely check out these guys.' And they're totally great. Like this obscure 70s prog band from Romania, Phoenix. They're fantastic. ... [Otherwise] Thomas and I listen to old schloss [?] music -- classically trained singers who were making popular music in their time, and everyone makes fun of us for doing that, but it's great music. No one has a problem listening to Beethoven, whose music is a few hundred years old and was undoubtedly pop for its time, but why can't we listen to what was pop music only 60 years ago without being ridiculed?"

Some nuggets of mirth and wisdom were unfortunately lost for the ages due to a tape recorder malfunction, but Mr. Johnsson also waxed nostalgic about how music must have been in the late 60s and was in the 70s, where loads of people would come see a band and those same people would then buy a band's records and tell their friends about the live experience, resulting in large sales numbers, no doubt aided by fuzzy memories of said concerts, which were "chemically" aided and abetted. The famous hand sign for "smoking weed" – you know the one – was indicated more than once by Christofer with shared laughter at the notion of herbs assisting the vibe of music, just shy of creating some sort of 'reefer madness' or other would-be mass hysteria, of course.

- Tony Belcher